Rude? Moi?

[london1967]

According to the BBC "Londoners (have been) given etiquette guide for 2012 Games".
I haven't received a copy but the article on the BBC website contains important advice such as "Do not take offence if an Australian or a New Zealander makes a joke about 'Poms'" and "Never call a Canadian an American".

Sadly it doesn't mention anything about bundling the Portuguese and the Spanish together! (I'm saying this because Adrian once said to a Portuguese bear in SItges - as a joke :"Portuguese? Spanish? It's all the same!". It didn't go down well! The Portuguese chap probably still thinks that the English are rude, and london1952  still thinks that the Portuguese don't have a sense of humour).

Anyway, I was saying that I haven't received such guide, but with perfect timing this week's Time Out asks the important question


 

The article says that the British were famous for being polite until London - recently voted the rudest place in the UK - ruined it all.

Naturally we tend to judge rudeness in other cultures using our own cultural parameters.
So, for instance the two gentlemen, visiting from the offfice in India, who sit opposite me don't really mean to be rude by chomping their food and sharing the flavours of their meals with me in gaseous form with their loud burps.

But I guess there is a lowest common denominator to human behaviour that makes it polite or rude, and I hope it's what the Time Out writer looked at when judging London's competition for the title.

Comments

[madknits.livejournal.com]

This is brilliant.

Oh, and tell Adrian that "a Spaniard is a Portuguese with brains. A Portuguese is a Spaniard with character." I forget who said that, but I read it somewhere.....

[london1967.livejournal.com]

Grazie, bello!

I will let him know. Although I hope he won't use it when in Sitges in September! LOL!

[bazanges.livejournal.com]

On my last visit to London, even staff at Paddington were charming !!
As for Adrians misunderstanding, wasnt it during a pasta mountain eating contest ??
Ricardo xx

[london1967.livejournal.com]

"Pasta mountain eating constest"?
LOL! You are funny!

I had forgotten what we had for dinner that night!

Hugs,
Franco
xx

[gorkabear.livejournal.com]

Hum, so now we are called "Catalonians" instead of "Catalans"

The tips are perfectly correct but the assumption on our personality is wrong. We do think that the rest of Spain is a country of lazy people who live on our blood-drenched taxes (like the Northern Italians think about the South, so this might sound familiar to you) but Northern visitors aren't amoebas, they're called prawns.

[madknits.livejournal.com]

I used to work with a woman from Barcelona, and one day asked her:
--"Eva, do you speak Catalan?"
--"Oh yes, we speak Catalan at home, in school, at church, on the streets. The only time we speak Spanish is when we go to Spain."

And that left me gobsmacked.

[gorkabear.livejournal.com]

Hehe, you can speak Spanish in plenty of places in Catalonia as well (for instance, where I grew up and still live)

[london1967.livejournal.com]

I've always wondered whether for a foreigner who doesn't speak Catalan is better to speak in English than in Spanish when in Catalonia.

(That's what they say, for instance, in Belgium when it comes to French and Flemish if you are in the 'wrong' part of the country).

Better to speak in English than in Spanish when in Catalonia

[ursine1.livejournal.com]

In the Barcelona area nearly everyone speaks Spanish, not so many speak English. We have a number of immigrants here from other parts of Spain and from Latin America that do not speak Catalan.

Native Catalans don't expect tourists to speak their language and even when you use it often will respond in Spanish. That's been my experience. Usually only when you speak Catalan quickly and with a good accent will they respond in kind.

If you speak Italian slowly, many people here will be able to understand you. It's just another Latin-based language.

Chuck, bon dia!

Re: Better to speak in English than in Spanish when in Catalonia

[london1967.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this Chuck!

(Not that I speak much Spanish but sometimes it's nice to make an effort!)

[gorkabear.livejournal.com]

Nope... For centuries, Catalans have been forced to speak Spanish. 99% of Catalan speakers speak Spanish but the other way around barely happens.

You can speak Spanish freely here (you can find a radical occasionally who won't speak Spanish but they're outnumbered by those who refuse to speak Catalan)

[london1967.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the information, Xavi.

I don't speak much Spanish, but it's nice to try.
I guess I could complement it with Italian or, to make things trickier, Piemontèis! LOL!

[gorkabear.livejournal.com]

Well, if you realize the person speaks Catalan, do it... We will love to find similarities. As per Italian, it turns out that modern Italian grammar shows a lot of similar traits to modern Catalan grammar, as they were finished at about the same time. This is the reason why (if you really study the languages) we have the same usages with the essere/stare verbs in Catalan, or the use of the pronouns "CI" and "NE". These are things Spanish speakers can't even think of understanding.

[london1967.livejournal.com]

The Oxford dictionary has both terms (well according to the net).

Oh no, we end up chopped in your paella! lol!

[gorkabear.livejournal.com]

Yes, with plenty of chorizo (pun intended) on the side :)

The actual word for tourist with pinkish skin is "guiri" but since they don't usually use sun protection, they become pink as prawns (gambas), hence the nickname.

[london1967.livejournal.com]

Thanks! There's even an entry on wikipedia for "guiri"!

[jeffurrynpl.livejournal.com]

I was holding my breath for the New York column...and they got it right. :{)} Like you said, it all depends on your definition of rudeness. I think it's much ruder to give someone bad information or wrong directions when you don't know the actual answer (London) than it is to tell someone to fuck off when they deserve it, which is most of the time (New York). ;{)}

Though I've never heard any New Yorker say "nuts to you", unless they're selling candied nuts at one of the many NUTS4NUTS stands around the city.

[london1967.livejournal.com]

Well maybe you should pay a visit again as we have progressed and lots of people won't give any information at all! LOL!

[jeffurrynpl.livejournal.com]

I'd rather have no information than be lied to. I hope things really have changed in that regard! :{)}

[london1967.livejournal.com]

But maybe they thought they knew what they were talking about.
They were just delusional, not rude! lol

[jeffurrynpl.livejournal.com]

If it had been one or two delusional people okay, but a whole country? That's a religion! ;{)}

[london1967.livejournal.com]

I've heard the same but don't know if it is really that rude.

[theoctothorpe.livejournal.com]

I'd say it's pretty rude in the modern day. I mean, would you, in English, call out for a waiter by saying "boy" (with all of the submissiveness that entails) ??*



* Well, sure, in some circumstances, boy is entirely appropriate, but not in most. ;-)

[london1967.livejournal.com]

No, I wouldn't - unless very annoyed with the young waiter!

(But then I don't speak French)

[pectopah.livejournal.com]

In my French class, I was told that "garçon" was a French term that was still used in France (where, of course, French has been irredeemably damaged by English), but was quite rude in egalitarian Quebec. I have heard Americans use it in restaurants here and I just want to crawl under the table.

[london1967.livejournal.com]

We have the same word in my dialect (Piemontèis) although it means a young apprentice or helper.

[paulintoronto.livejournal.com]

Although I'm disappointed that Toronto was not discussed here, I'm too polite to even allude to that disappointment. Sorry for making such a pointless comment.

[london1967.livejournal.com]

Perhaps it's because Canadians don't have a reputation for being rude.

[danthered.livejournal.com]

Only if you don't speak the language. Every English-speaking culture has a way of saying "Fuck you and the horse you rode in on" without actually saying it. I don't know what the U.K. convention(s) might be, but in the Southern U.S., they say "Well, bless yer heart!". In the Northern U.S., they say "Well, good fer you!". In Canada, we say "Oh, sorry!". Which leads me to my first topical joke: You're in a roomful of people. How do you find the one Canadian? You step on everyone's toes (…the Canadian says "Oh! Sorry!").

Oh yeah, and what's the difference between a Canadian and an American? The Canadian knows the difference.

[london1967.livejournal.com]

I think here it is (or it used to be) less verbal and more passive-aggressive!

[danthered.livejournal.com]

Good evening.
We are the Canadian Borg.
Resistance is impolite.
Please wait your turn for assimilation.
Pour l'assimilation en français, veuillez appuyer sur le «2».

[london1967.livejournal.com]

That's very funny... but it works for me: good manners above all!

[ctgstr8.livejournal.com]

I like your comment. Thanks from a Canadian reader.

[danthered.livejournal.com]

I'm glad that you do - thanks for the compliment. It caused a minor sensation five years ago when I posted it here and it was reposted here. But for my dual citizenship, I'd be culturally unable to make such a boastful boast.

[london1967.livejournal.com]

And well-deserved fame!

[joebehrsandiego.livejournal.com]

Oh, my.

From my experience with three of these cities (NYC, London, Paris) I would agree, more or less w/the writer. Madrid is sort of a cross between the description of B.A., and Omaha. I liked it a lot.

Un-topical question: How are Brit journalists, from The Economist to the Guardian to Time Out, able to fit droll humor into every syllable? Is it a gift or some secret UK J(ournalism)-School course? :>)

[london1967.livejournal.com]

Omaha, Nebraska?

You are right about the journalists... there must be a special school, especially for those people in charge of article titles!

[joebehrsandiego.livejournal.com]

Yes.

Madrid boys were refreshingly un-Continential ... i.e. blue-collar-ish, friendly w/o (seemingly) any other agendas, etc.

[allanh.livejournal.com]

Rude or not, I would LOVE to visit Your Fair City, meet both of you, and see all of the various sights that I haven't seen since my last trip...when I was 17. (Hint: "[Rock] Follies of 1977 was in first-run on television.")

[london1967.livejournal.com]

That'd be great! I'm sure you'd enjoy the city (there are quite a number of new things to visit since you were here!)